Paul Chen swords overated?

[tclause]

I was wondering if anyone else thinks chen swords may be overrated, the practicals are a good value but do the better fit and finish over say a cheness shura or tenchi make up for the near indestructibility and cutting ability of the cheness blades. after all in this practical arena is performance not the issue for a cutting sword. the high end chens are in the price range of nihonto. can anyone argue that a nihonto at say $1500.00 to $3000.00 would not be a better investment as there are not many people that will be back yard cutting with a $1500.00 sword. i think chen has become the harley davidson of swords, success based on branding rather than performance. :sumo:

[bobO]

I agree with the second half of your post but not the first part. I don't own any cheness blades, but I do have two chens, and I feel I received more then my moneys worth. The reason I don't own any cheness is I've heard to many story's of them breaking and poor quality furniture.

[Mako]

I've always kept this quote in mind...

In the world of swords you often get less than what you paid for,hopefully you get exactly what you paid for,seldom do you get more.

...words of wisdom IMHO. ;)

[Sairon]

Tclause any chen sword is not even close to the price of a nihonto, nihonto prices start from $25,000.00 and go up and up and up and thats without including the furniture!!! No sword can be over rated if compared to a nihonto.

[RedZorak]

Yes, Cheness does make a quality blade, and I will even agree, for the sake of arguement, that they are better than Hanwei blades in some aspects. However, the tsuka on Cheness blades are terrible, and really need to be replaced before using. In the end, you spend more than you would for a Hanwei blade that has a workable tsuka. Really, the blade is only half the equation, without a good tsuka and koshirae the blade is useless.

Also, when you mention that for the higher end swords you start to get in the range of Nihonto, that is only for the blade. A tsuka and a good set of koshirae will set you back much more.

[tclause]

Bought a chen ppke today to try out, is this personal experience with the tsuka failure or are you going off of what you have seen on other forums. I have owned a shura for about 2 years tsuka is still in good shape maybe i just got a good one I have seen several post about tsuka problems

[Brian Brazier]

I stick with Paul Chen's simply because I have never had a sword fail, they always exceed my expectations, the Koshirae is very well made, and fit and finish is always near perfect (sometimes the saya will need some slight adjustment). That's not to say I won't ever pick up a Cheness, I have thought about it many times, but I too have heard they have allot of quality control issues, the Koshirae leave allot to be desired, and it is hard for me to spend that kind of money on something I will want to change. Your right you can get a Nihonto Katana for $1,500, the problem is they usually don't have papers, are not mounted (which for me is fine), will most likely have blade damage and need a full polish (which start around $2,000) which might fix the problems but it isn't a given. A Shinken is quite simply a live blade which most every Paul Chen (except Iaito) are, so I am not quite sure what your trying to describe.

[RedZorak]

Head on over to SFI and do a few searches on Cheness and their tsuka failures. That should explain a few things to you. I do own a cheness, and I would not feel safe using it to cut unless I were to make a new tsuka for it.

[tclause]

i was right with "nihonto" had seen bare blades in that range sairon had me second guessing myself. I think to be a shinken a true sword by Japanese standards it has to be made in japan traditional construction.

[jwilliams]

I have Chen, Ryumon, Masahiro and when I want to feel better about my cutting ability and cut effortlessly I use the Chen. It seems to much more forgiving of poor technique. When you make a cut with the Chen you don't really even feel it cutting, with the others you feel the resistance even though they're as sharp as can be.

And kind of crossing over to another thread, it's not the speed or the power of a cut, it's the technique. The old masters, ie. Munenori and Musashi, taught that you practice technique and the speed and power will follow. Like anything, you train properly, and it doesn't have to be fast, to build muscle memory and when you need it it will be there without thinking, "no mind".

[Jason Moore]

I carry many brands of swords and see them all day. To me, the Chen's are definetely the best ones I have seen so far.

[Brian Brazier]

i was right with "nihonto" had seen bare blades in that range sairon had me second guessing myself. I think to be a shinken a true sword by Japanese standards it has to be made in japan traditional construction.

Actually that is the definition of a Nihonto - Japanese Steel, or Japanese made Shinken, there are different terms that refer to the time period, and who made the sword, but all true Nihonto are made in Japan. Most of the Nihonto that are available in the US will be antique pieces, newer pieces "Gendaito" are very rare as most are sold only in Japan and will start around $25,000, plus to take them out of the country you need special permits that are nearly impossible to get and will cost more than the sword. A Shinken - Live sword, can be made anywhere, but as described above is only a Nihonto when made in Japan. I hope this helps you sort out a tiny bit of the massive glossary that is attached to the Japanese sword, I am by no means an expert nor do I know 1/4 of the sword terminology off the top of my head, I am constantly referencing the net and this book for answers http://www.amazon.com/Connoisseurs-Book-Japanese-Swords/dp/4770020716/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208534704&sr=8-2 and even then I get confused

[tclause]

yea the ones i have seen in that price range were from the hundred years war period, i have seen them in the u.s. there are a few dealers in the us.

[tclause]

Jason, have bought from you in the past and will continue to buy from you I recommend you to my friends all the time for budget swords. Sorry on the not buying the chen ppke from you I have a wholsale account with a distributer for the higher end stuff.

[Brian Brazier]

The PPKE is my cutting sword, it has the perfect weight, balance, and feel for me, it is the best investment in a sword I have made

[bobO]

I say that about my DF ko-kat, with my hanwei's coming in second. If that's the sword you used in your cutting vid it's going on my list!

[Mako]

"Gendaito" are very rare as most are sold only in Japan and will start around $25,000
Sorry Brian but that's not right and if anyone wants to find correct terminology and much more about all Japanese blades on the 'net,this is the only site you'll ever need,using the search facility and links.
I recommend to everyone that it's bookmarked. ;)

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm (http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm)

Gendaito - "modern sword" (this refers to the sword having been made between 1876 and 1945, not to whether the blade is handmade or not.)

Shinken forged in Japan after 1954 are known as Shinsaku-to [new art sword] and those made by smiths like Ono Yoshimitsu may cost $25k +

[Sairon]

Thanks Mako and Brian your posts make me feel like mine arnt completly off:>. back to topic now:ohyeah:.

[tclause]

price does not necessarily dictate quality

[Brian Brazier]

if your talking about a true Nihonto it usually does, as for production Katana's I agree, you can pick up a Practical Katana of either Classic or Performance and it will perform just as good as the expensive ones, and yes Bobo that is the one I used in my cutting vid (which I still need to get running again) Thanks Mako for clarifying that, I have seen Gendaito listed as 1876 to present, just goes to show the multitude of terms that are used to describe the Japanese Sword

[tclause]

yea I was talking about production swords, thanks for the input guys

[corundum]

hey redzorak I don't know what your talking about I have a cheness shura and that sword is just simply amazing I"ve literaly cut a tree down with it before with no damage to any part of it I don't know maybe I just got lucky but I feel very safe cutting with it.

[bobO]

hey redzorak I don't know what your talking about I have a cheness shura and that sword is just simply amazing I"ve literaly cut a tree down with it before with no damage to any part of it I don't know maybe I just got lucky but I feel very safe cutting with it. Wouldn't an axe have worked better?:flaming:

[RedZorak]

hey redzorak I don't know what your talking about I have a cheness shura and that sword is just simply amazing I"ve literaly cut a tree down with it before with no damage to any part of it I don't know maybe I just got lucky but I feel very safe cutting with it.

...Did you disassemble it first to check the tsuka? A lot of people who have bought cheness swords have reported having a cracked tsuka. Also, the way they carve the tsuka for the same panels creates weak spots in the tsuka as well. I feel safer just leaving my sword as a display item until I can make a new tsuka.

...How big was this tree?

[Mako]

hey redzorak I don't know what your talking about I have a cheness shura and that sword is just simply amazing I"ve literaly cut a tree down with it before with no damage to any part of it I don't know maybe I just got lucky but I feel very safe cutting with it.
You ever heard of a man named Trip Fisk? :-/

[bobO]

He's GONNA!! Took my ko-kat apart, the tsuka is cracked the SAME as the kat is. Not happy!

[Firehand10k]

You can only get a better price there if you don't contact Jason here at SoM. He matches competitors prices.

[jwilliams]

you can get a better price at http://www.knifesupplysource.com and he is cool as hell to talk to on the phone. just dont mention the goverment or you will get a long speach about how ther out to get us. lol

A better price for what, I think I must be lost. You won't find anyone better to talk to or deal with than Jason and Swords of Might. This is the second post you've done that has a link to that knife place and you only have 3 posts and I haven't seen the third one. Does it have the link too?

[Taygrd]

Well I looked this site over and I must say you can buy a cheap sword cheap there, or you can wait till Saturday and buy the same one cheaper from the local flea market. The swords we are discussing here are not merely decoration, they are made to cut with. Most of our members understand that and appreciate a decent sword. I did not see a sword that was from the same manufactures on the site listed. Just a friendly observation and a recommendation to compare apples to apples.:)

[Firehand10k]

Anybody check out the contact info at the knife place? Its this guy- bbnomad76@ yahoo.com . No wonder the link is all he's listing.

[Taygrd]

BBnomad was trying to advertise his company by acting as another customer. Due to the diligence of our members he was detected and the post deleted.

[Jason Moore]

Thanks guys, good job. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind someone linking to another sword store if they have to or showing links to custom makers, and I will never ban anyone for doing so. This guy obviously wanted to plug his own business and not contribute to the forum. He has been destroyed. :ohyeah: As I have said before, You guys really care about the integrity of your forum and I thank you for looking out for me as well!

[jwilliams]

Thanks guys, good job. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind someone linking to another sword store if they have to or showing links to custom makers, and I will never ban anyone for doing so. This guy obviously wanted to plug his own business and not contribute to the forum. He has been destroyed. :ohyeah: As I have said before, You guys really care about the integrity of your forum and I thank you for looking out for me as well!

We're family and in the end family is all you have. I mean seriously, Jason has done more for me and been nicer to me than a lot of people that I have known for years. And you guys are great too. You can tell when someone comes in here that has a different attitude.

[bobO]

Ain't that the truth, just look to our banner.We got your back big guy!!

[Kusaga Kamui~Shinjo-ryu~]

my entire class owned paul chens(the nami ito) and never did anyone have a single problem. once during a demo rehearsal myself and another student clashed due to poor timing and the blades held up remarkably. small scratches on the hi but other than that nothing. we were lucky that the blades had no internal problems or one of us may have gotten an extra air hole that night.
as to the tsuka they are rather good. not the best. im in the process of changing the Same` and the wrappings im not sure if i want to get new menuki and make a whole new tsuka but i might. the mekugi that came with it however were crap and splintered by my second disassembly . all in all im a chen man.

[goose710]

Kursaga Kamui
Welcome to the forum , enjoy
da goose710

[jwilliams]

Welcome to the forum.

[bobO]

Thanks for the info, and welcome to the forum.

[Brian Brazier]

my entire class owned paul chens(the nami ito) and never did anyone have a single problem. once during a demo rehearsal myself and another student clashed due to poor timing and the blades held up remarkably. small scratches on the hi but other than that nothing. we were lucky that the blades had no internal problems or one of us may have gotten an extra air hole that night.
as to the tsuka they are rather good. not the best. im in the process of changing the Same` and the wrappings im not sure if i want to get new menuki and make a whole new tsuka but i might. the mekugi that came with it however were crap and splintered by my second disassembly . all in all im a chen man.

Welcome to the forum, I have the Tsuru Iaito and I love it, it is half the price of some Japanese ones I've had, and the blade has almost no wobble to it. I too have had problems with the lower end Paul Chen swords Mekugi, I believe the are made of wood and that is why they splinter so easily, but that is an easy fix compared to some swords in the same price range.