Katana blade

[Sairon]

How do you bring out the hamon on a Katana, my real question what chemicals or stuff do you use, I'm making a Katana the traditonal way so any help is great.

Sairon

[Taygrd]

Welcome to the forum. I hope that you will enjoy the group of people on here as much as I do.
I am going to try to answer your question for you, however I am by no means an expert.
A traditionally built katana the hamon would not require chemical enchancement, on the contrary it would be detrimental to the blade causing it to rust quickly inside the folds. I have heard of some unhanded restorers using it on old blades but they are destroying what other seek to preserve.
If you look at this link you can see a water quenched blade that was polished to bring hamon out without chemicals. Our very own Goose made this beauty.=D>
http://swordsofmightforum.com/showthread.php?t=445&page=7 Go to page 7

If you want to chemically etch a blade this is what I used for non-folded steel. PCB Etchant Solution
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102868&cp=&sr=1&origkw=board+etch&kw=board+etch&parentPage=search

Hope this helps

[Sairon]

I will be clay tempering the blade so no acid etch;) . Thanks for the links to=D>, the reason I asked is because I hade watched a documentary on PBS on the Katana and in it it said that the sword polisher used a special wash to make the Hamon more visible so I thought I'd ask and see if it was needed.

Thanks a lot,:celebration:
Sairon

[Taygrd]

You are welcome. If the documetary you watched was "The Secrets of the Samuria Sword" I saw the polisher use the red paste to bring out the hamon. Not sure what he used, maybe a vegitable based product? It was red and I know tomato is used on occasion. Good luck to you in you build. Let us know of your progress. We all get inspired by each others work.

[jwilliams]

You are welcome. If the documetary you watched was "The Secrets of the Samuria Sword" I saw the polisher use the red paste to bring out the hamon. Not sure what he used, maybe a vegitable based product? It was red and I know tomato is used on occasion. Good luck to you in you build. Let us know of your progress. We all get inspired by each others work.

Tomato aka ketchup is sometimes used to remove oxidation in some steel, don't know about swords though.

[Taygrd]

Thanks J, good to hear from you.

[Mako]

Tomato contains a mild citric acid similar to Lemon and Lime which some people use to enhance a true hamon.
The reddish brown paste used by traditional Japanese polishers is the slurry from the finger stones if my memory serves me well.:-?

[Taygrd]

Again Mako, We have the best Moderators:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

[Sairon]

Thanks Mako for the info:king:, Taygrd thats the show and again

Thanks
Sairon

[jwilliams]

Thanks J, good to hear from you.

Thanks Taygrd, always here, mostly enjoying the posts. I'm loving the talk about you guys building your blades. One day......

[bobO]

Tomato contains a mild citric acid similar to Lemon and Lime which some people use to enhance a true hamon.
The reddish brown paste used by traditional Japanese polishers is the slurry from the finger stones if my memory serves me well.:-?
Dotanuki said something about this, so I checked it out, and yes the slurry is an important component in stone polishing. And as Mako said this is the brown paste. Speaking of which, Jason let me know when you get more of those polishing box thingy's. I think Goose got the last one.

[goose710]

Bob-o
I used it first time today the stones are beatiful, soft if you can believe it! like silk. anyway it takes time and i can't get a full flat yet, but i'm just practicing
well worth the money and will keep ALL your knives , swords, axes, machetes sharp
da goose710

[Sairon]

http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=222Hopefully this shows up but on to the new question. On some swords they have black or some sort of paint of the blade, how would you achieve this and would it come of when you put blade oil on it?

Thanks
Sairon

Ps came someone PM me and tell me how to post a pic and make it show up?

[Taygrd]

I will try to answer this but there are no doubt some others that are better versed than I.
When they show a picture of Nihonto (true Japanese blades) most of those are in black and white to show the hamon. I am sure there is a special method with lighting, film, and develpment used to have that feature stand out. The feature is there but it is best observed in person in correct lighting. The hada is subtle and the hamon is prominant if it is polished correctly. In Nihonto the molecular changes in the steel will have different shades. You can write a book about the effects the clay temper has on the appearance of the blade.
Some of your production swords like Paul Chen and the Buegi look like they have used a bluing solution or acid to make everything above the hamon darker. It is still clay tempered and has a true hamon, however they appear to want to bring out the hada as well. This is a guess since I have not seen one of these in person. If it is a bluing solution then it will not come off when oiled, and is similar to a finish on a gun.

[Sairon]

Not quite the answere so here is a better version, go to http://www.swordsoftheeast.com and go to thatsuki Nihonto and look at the Sokueto Hondachi Katana and on the blade you will see some blake paint type thing on the back of the blade, here is my question how do you make that paint and put it on a blade? if no one knows will gunblueing work instead?

[Taygrd]

Sorry for long explianation the first time, did not quite get what you where shooting for. Not sure I am seeing what you were talking about. The blade has a groove that runs 1/4 of the way down and then it transitions into the ridgeline that looks black but is more than likely a shadow.

Gun blueing will work. Have to be percise on where you put since it will stain where it hits. Use some steel wool to prepare the area you want colored then let the other areas remain polished, may help keep the lines clean.
Hope this helps.

[Mako]

I don't see anything except the difference in reflection of light off the blade.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1231/ktn5bladescabbardkatanawl9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Firehand10k]

Sairon take a closer look at the last pic meant to show the habaki clearly you will see the there is actually no black in the blade. Just the shadow in the groove.

[Sairon]

I feel kinda dorky:-< but look at the black above the Hi and do you see that black is that just a shadow? and if so I'll just go with gun blueing for my upcoming blade.http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1231/ktn5bladescabbardkatanawl9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

[Mako]

If the part of the blade you're referring to has the red line...it's shadow.

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9634/ktn5bladescabbardkatanamy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jason Moore]

Since I take a million pics for my own site I know how terrible light refraction and shadows can be. It is definetly a shadow...

[Sairon]

Ok thanks for the help so far guys this forum rocks:rockin:. (to bad that sword doesn't have that shadow as paint on the blade=()

[rene144]

well there ya go haha i didn't know that, i always thought that they used some sort of graphite polish to give the blade a darker look or perhaps like some sort of other mineral with a blackish look. You know if they do use graphite or another dark mineral to bring out the hamon?

[Sairon]

You know if they do use graphite or another dark mineral to bring out the hamon?

Now don't think I'm being mean so take this in a nice way:ohyeah: but look at the pages before they tell what chemicals are used:>.

Again take this post as a nice one
Sairon

[rene144]

Now don't think I'm being mean so take this in a nice way:ohyeah: but look at the pages before they tell what chemicals are used:>.

Again take this post as a nice one
Sairon

haha no worries, i was just wondering i thought they were just hovering over a few materials, and since i didn't know thought i'd ask :P

[Sairon]

Hey I just thought of something, when some of my frinds were building LED lightsabers they put enamel paint on the metal handle then later they wanted to take it of but they couln't. would enamel work instead of gunblueing?

[Firehand10k]

Enamel will work ok on handle components but not really on a blade. It is thick and would change the weight and geometry of the blade and it is susceptible to cracking when the blade strikes an object.

[Sairon]

ok blueing it is:ohyeah:, and for enamel t'was just a thought=P.

[Sairon]

I won't be doing this for awile=(, but if I want to engrave something like the dragon in my signature how deep is the maxium for carving into the blade in centimeters because I dont want to go to deep and wreck the blade;) (I would be engraving a dragon on both sides so I am assuming I shouldn't go very deep)?

[Firehand10k]

:-O In centimeters!?!?!? It should be more like nanometers. Any etching is just engraved deep enough to show clearly no more. One centimeter is thicker than the blade unless you're etching something like a Buster Sword.

[Sairon]

After I posted I relized that centimeters are to big:flaming: but on the good side thanks for the help Firehand10K:lager:.

[Sairon]

ok now to de-rail my thread for a moment#-o. if you took supplies to make a sword to japan and made a katana would it be considered a nihonto?