levels of steel quality and processes used, please explain

[Redline]

Hello. I am new to this wonderful world of katanas. I just purchased 2 of them, the Masahiro Kill Bill one (very nice) and the Masahiro White Shadow in brown color (arriving on Thurs).

Here is my question. Can someone list for me in order (#1 being best, #10 being worst), the types of metals and proccesses used for making these swords. In other words, from what I understand so far folding seems to be better than not folding, There are different forging methods too. Then I see numbers like 1060, 1045, hardness = 57, etc. This will help me in my future buying decisions especially when I start buying the more expensive swords.

Thanks for your help.

[69NINJA]

welcome to the forum redline.
Thats ALOT to try and answer all at once but your definitely in the right place.

for starters, the following site has some good info on various steel types:

http://www.angelic.org/highlander/metallurgy/grades.html


~

[Jason Moore]

Thanks Ninja, what an excellent link! Welcome to the forum Redline. I don't think there is a best-worst steel. I think it is dependent on the users tastes. (Other than stainless of course)

[Brian Brazier]

the #1 forging and steel are purely up to the user and his or her demands as Jason said, the least favorite would have to be stainless steel for the steel, and not hand forged (basically a machine punches the shape out of the stainless). Any hand forged carbon monosteel sword will do the job, the hardness is dependent on the different clay they use on the edge and back of the blade determines the shape of the hamon and hardness.

[Dotanuki]

I think a lot of it boils down to aesthetics, and whether you are a collector, or are you a practicioner, or both. Or collecting just for fun and recreation. Or even some people's budget. [yes, taking care of your family is more important than that sword]
Those fancy stainless steel swords you see nowdays, are done on lasers. This is how they get all those fancy cutouts and strange shapes. It really is amazing what a laser is capable of doing. Stainless is best left for decorative [fantasy]
Remember traditionalists like the folded blades because that it was they [samurai] used. With the modern metallurgies they have now days, all the other factors are about equal.

[Redline]

Thanks guys. Now, as far as price goes, if there is a small price difference I think it's safe to assume that it doesn't mean that the more expensive one is better right? For example, a $300 sword or a $350 sword. The $300 might actually be better right? But if you are talking about a $1500 sword and a $300, the $1500 one is better correct?

[Dotanuki]

LOL, If you buy it here, I would certainly hope so!! =))
Eh, Jason? >:)
On the other hand, if you go to the local gun show, and buy an authentic Nihon-To, well like they say, "Let the buyer Beware!" :-O

[Brian Brazier]

Thanks guys. Now, as far as price goes, if there is a small price difference I think it's safe to assume that it doesn't mean that the more expensive one is better right? For example, a $300 sword or a $350 sword. The $300 might actually be better right? But if you are talking about a $1500 sword and a $300, the $1500 one is better correct?

It really all depends on what your buying the sword for. For me a $1,500 folded steel sword may be a great sword, but for a dojo cutter it just isn't economical. Also as Dotanuki pointed out, unless your buying a brand new $1,500 sword from a reputable company and maker, be careful, especially with a Katana. Right now they are in high demand, and there are allot of people taking advantage of uneducated sword buyers. If you will be using the sword for cutting you may also want to take into account not only the quality, steel, forging process, etc... but the length of the sword and tsuka. One of the biggest selling points for me is the length of these things, I like the blade 27" down to 26", and the tsuka no longer than 11.5", with the blade I am a little flexible, but when it comes to the tsuka I will not buy anything above 11.5, I have owned the Practical Pro which has a 14" tsuka, and I could not swing it comfortably, the only word I can use to describe it is awkward. Hope this helps ~X( =))

[Redline]

Brian, that's a good point. I am the oposite of you however. I first got the Masahiro Kill Bill with 27 blade and 11 or 11.5 tsuka and I thought the front was heavy. I then got the White Shadow Katana in brown and it has a 28 blade and 13 tsuka and it feels better.

Now mind you, that's without me swinging either one. The Shadow just feels lighter since more of the weight falls towards the rear. Let's see if I change my mind once I start cutting.

[Dotanuki]

Brian,
I have to agree with on every point, but you missed the point of, if they are actually being trained or backyard cutting. Many times people buy a sword and then take lessons, only to find out their sword might be unsuitable for the style they are in.
Guys, don't take this the wrong way, but it always bring a tear to my eye, when I hear of a backyard cutter with a $1,500 sword chopping up soda bottles in the backyard. Brings an even bigger tear, when they ask how to fix the sword they just damaged. If all you are going to do is backyard cutting, you don't need a $1,500 sword, your lower end swords will work just fine.

[Firehand10k]

Yeah but when you start as a sword collector and its a beautiful piece that cost $1500 that you just couldn't resist, then you get that $300 sword and can't resist anymore, so you cut with it and its sooooo much fun how do you resist the temptation to go see how much nicer that $1500 is. Then When the $1500 cuts so perfectly how do you resist that "one more cut won't hurt it." then, the then, then....

I probably really shoud know better since I just got my favorite sword bent like mad over Xmas (fixed now though and ony $220 sword anyway) but I'm sure that even though I am stepping up the quality range (and pricyness) of my collection this year I'm gonna be trying them all out.

[Redline]

I have a question on how sharp the blade should be and should it be the same sharpness the length of the entire blade.

My Masahiro Kill Bill that I mentioned before is sharp and if I'm not mistaken the blade sharpness is fairly uniform from one end to the other. The Masahiro White Shadow I mentioned before seems to be at least as sharp, but I think the front, point half of the blade is sharper than the other half.

Is that normal?

[bobO]

Well for Chinese swords,generally speaking they start off dull and get sharper towards the point.For katana the edge should be uniform the length of the blade,But how sharp they can be is dependent on the steel at the edge.Most low end kats are way to sharp!The edge generally only having a RC hardness of around 45.To sharp it will dull and roll easily.None of my swords are as sharp as my knives,close but not quite.Also blade geometry has a lot to do with it.If you send a kat out to be sharpened(polished) they generally only sharpen the last 14-15 inches,Where you should be doing most of your cutting.Hope that helps some.PS>AS far as Nihonto,I think the Dotinuki blades are know for being SHARP!!PSS.It is really easy to srew up the Ha of a katana,if your not carefull you can put a wave in the Ha, then your SOL.

[Redline]

Thanks bob0.

[bobO]

Your Welcome,It's funny how something so simple,is anything but.MY bitter half just can't understand how come I study this stuff so much.

[Jason Moore]

Was that a typo Bobo? BITTER half??!! HUNNY!!=)) (private joke) (kinda)

[bobO]

Typo,that's my story and I'm sticking to it.