ZAt 2 Hamon

[bobO]

Does anyone know if the hamon on the zat2 is real? I have a hard time telling on a chen blade cause there just so white.Does he etch his hamons to make them stand out more or what.Thanks bobO:-/

[Justice]

It's a real hamon. I'm not 100% sure what Paul Chen does to theirs to get them so white though. An acid etched hamon is real, just not traditional.

[Travis Morris]

I am pretty sure all PC Hanwei Hamons are real. Just etched

[Brian Brazier]

Which one is the Zatoichi 2? Is it the Red one? If so that only has the etched hamon

[bobO]

No not the red lacquer one,It' #SH2267, from every thing I've read and heard about it .The blades better then the red one.The Hamon looks just like the one on my new pp tanto.Thats why I ask.Also not thinking it real I wasn't as careful as I could have been when I touched up the edge.=(

[Brian Brazier]

I assume it is an etched hamon, but I very well could be wrong, according to the CAS website http://www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=SH2267 it is tempered, but is says nothing about claying, or the hamon

[bobO]

So what happens if I take some 4000 grit paper to it,or maybe I should just bite the bullet and see about having justice do some work on it.I wanted to put some rattan on it anyway.I really like this sword and cut with it all the time,it does have a very nice blade.

[Mako]

I assume it is an etched hamon, but I very well could be wrong, according to the CAS website http://www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=SH2267 it is tempered, but is says nothing about claying, or the hamon
I don't think that it can be a true hamon either,CAS state that the blade is "fully tempered" but there's no mention of differential tempering,without which,there can't be a true hamon.

[Justice]

Guys guys guys guys guys,

I used to have one. Trust me, it has a true hamon like the Practical Plus katanas and others like it. The black cane and the red cane don't have real hamons, the forged and the forge folded one do.

[Mako]

Can't argue against someone who's actually owned this blade.:)
I've never seen one as they are borderline illegal here,retailers and private individuals are concerned that they may be confiscated by Customs if they try to import them.

[bobO]

Ow my head hurts.See the thing is when I got my tanto(chen PP)I put the two side by side and gave em the hairy eyeball and they are the same.So I screwed up a real Hamon:cry: justice wanna fix my sword.Or better yet tell me how to fix it myself.

[Brian Brazier]

If you really want to try yourself here is an excellent link to sword maintenance and repair http://www.ausblade.com/articles/34/ obviously look under bringing out the Hamon and Polish

[Jason Moore]

Ow my head hurts.See the thing is when I got my tanto(chen PP)I put the two side by side and gave em the hairy eyeball and they are the same.So I screwed up a real Hamon:cry: justice wanna fix my sword.Or better yet tell me how to fix it myself.

Don't fix it, just buy another one :>

[jwilliams]

You guys are the best. The links you put up are great resources for guys like me who are trying to learn about all the different aspects of these works of art. I agree BobO, buy a new one but use all the info from this forum to practice on the one you think you messed up and I'll bet you like even better than a new one.

[Jason Moore]

Don't fix it, just buy another one :>

I was just joking of course.

[bobO]

Sure you were.But if I do screw this up that's a serious option.brian that's the site I've been looking for,Thanks.Also the stones are on page 19 and 20 of the site dotinuki posted,thanks for that one.J got to agree with once again.Just so you guys know the hamon is just not as pretty as it was,but the Ha is right.One other thing,why in the world would Paul Chen put a real Hamon on a sub 200$ sword,and not tell us?

[jwilliams]

for me the real question is, why wouldn't you put it on everything you do? I mean since you already do the work, why not. For me, I've gotten to the age where I have to ask myself if I did something so it's easier to just do the same thing all the time so I don't have to wonder. Better to have it on everything than to leave it off where it was supposed to be.

[bobO]

I think in the case of low end production swords it's a matter of pure economics.Once you start trying to do something as difficult as putting a proper hamon on a blade,your going to have a higher failure rate.Which is why I opted for a TH blade(for my main cutter),easier to make ,less chance of a fubar.

[Jason Moore]

I agree with Bob, it is economics. But I believe (and please correct me if I am wrong) A blade can be differentially tempered and still not SHOW a hamon line. If it is not polished to bring out the hamon, I don't think you would see it. Some of the Ryumon swords we sell are differentially tempered and have zero hamon. I think the polishing is time consuming and they will not spend the time on cheaper swords.

[jwilliams]

That's what I meant. you could still do the tempering without spending the extra time on polishing.

[bobO]

I've always wondering,in this day and age that no one has come up with a machine that can polish a sword.You know clamp it in hit a button,presto polished sword.

[jwilliams]

I'm pretty sure they have, but then they wouldn't be strictly traditional. I think Jason said that some of the low end swords are done by a machine.

[bobO]

O-kay,lets see if this works.Presenting zat2.http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/bokim09/bobspicks091.jpg

[Nyetna Khazûl]

Okay maybe this is a sick bump but ... how do you tell if a hamon is real or not? :-?

[Brian Brazier]

Not always an easy task, most of your differently tempered (or clay tempered) swords will have them, of course this isn't always true, sometimes the have an acid etched hamon which looks almost exactly like a real hamon. The most easy to spot is the wire brushed hamon, these will have fine lines from the brushing. Here is a link to the Cheness explanation of the different hamon http://www.chenessinc.com/hamon.htm

[Taygrd]

One way I have found that will rule out an etched hamon is if the hamon runs up into the kissaki. If it terminates at the kissaki then it's more than likely etched. That does not mean if the hamon does run the full lenght of the blade it's real. The Cheness site that Brian posted is a great reference. Here one more I like:
http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/fake_japanese_swords.html

[Nyetna Khazûl]

Ah excellent with the links and all. Thank you so much! Time to get to the schoolbench and read on this. ;)

[bobO]

Jason, all we ask you for is the best deals on the net, and the fastest shipping to be had. So why don't you get off your butt and talk to the big shots at Hanwei and answer this question once and for all, what kind of Hamon does this sword have? pretty Please, Boss, Sir, old buddy.POPS!

[Brian Brazier]

The Paul Chen hamon on the differently tempered blades are real, they then enhance it with acid etching to make them more prominent, check out the last explanation on the Cheness site it explains exactly why.

[Jason Moore]

Brian is correct. They are real, but enhanced.

[tanukimario]

What about on real Japanese katanas where the hamon is VERY visible? Are those enhanced?

[bobO]

NO...NO...NO. In nihonto circles this would be a big no no. Only thru the type of polish the sword is given. Look to Goose710's Kat and wak, no etching there.

[Taygrd]

You would never want to etch a folded blade. The acid would work its way into the folds and eat the blade. True Nihonto swords that come back from the polisher sometimes "leak" some of the water used to polish out of the blade for weeks after. That is why they stress regular visual inspections on the blade some time after and application of the choji oil. The hamon in brought out through the polishing process which can cost $100 an inch in some places. I etch my blade but they are not folded and the oil quench does not bring out a bright a hamon as a water quench does. You really do not have to enhance a Nihonto, that's why they are pricey as well as awesome.

[Brian Brazier]

yeah it all comes down to cost, like Taygrd said the cost of a good polish is ridiculous. Paul Chen Hanwei uses the etch to save on cost, I have removed the etching on my PPKE and the hamon is very nice, not to prominent, but you can still see it. I bet if I gave the sword a good polish with some Hazuya stones it would look great, but I like my fingers where they are.