Masters Nakayama Hakudo and Morihei Ueshiba

[goose710]

Gentlemen
Found this video of these two Masters, 7.5 mins long , give it a chance very good, other than that cheesey mustach (but you go pull on it I ain't!!!) Samurai_Death=))

da gooseman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtlpcW7nB9c&feature=related

[bobO]

Awesome Goose, Thank you! Some waza in there I've never seen before. saw some opportunities to ruin that Jo staffs guy day, with a little trick Dotanuki taught me. They say it is hard to pull masters moustache, but easy to let go. These guys where funny about what they would show people, so just think of the really good stuff they ain't showing us.

[Dotanuki]

Good find goose!!

But cheesy moustache???

Think back to when you were a kid, it takes a certain kind of man to wear a moustache like that, and grow one for that matter, it seemed those guys with the great 'stash's' always had the envy and respect of the other men back then.
Although in the movies back then, sure seemed like all the villains in the movies had them!:ohyeah:
So maybe everybody was just scared of them?:-?

[goose710]

Dot
I wasn't sure if the thing was even REAL, had to see him in his younger days to be sure.

Now Dotanuki , i should talk about cheesy, ever seen my beard in winter???????

da gooseman

[Mako]

Great find 'gooseman'. ;)
Anybody have an idea of how old that footage is? Nakayama Hakudo was born 1873 according to my Google-fu. :-O

[wolfhound]

Nice one Gooseman.

Nakayama Hakudo Sensei, the founder of Muso Shinden Ryu, which is the school of Iai that I'm studying.

The video also shows Nakayama Hakudo teaching the Jujutsu element of Muso Shinden Ryu, which sadly nowadays is rarely taught.

His wiki entry also says that he was a licensed instructor of Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo, which does explain why so many Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido schools also teach Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakayama_Hakud%C5%8D

Awesome Goose, Thank you! Some waza in there I've never seen before. saw some opportunities to ruin that Jo staffs guy day, with a little trick Dotanuki taught me. They say it is hard to pull masters moustache, but easy to let go. These guys where funny about what they would show people, so just think of the really good stuff they ain't showing us.

Lol, but I'm sure the Jodoka would probably be ready for most things as the teaching method was far harsher back then :)

Great find 'gooseman'. ;)
Anybody have an idea of how old that footage is? Nakayama Hakudo was born 1873 according to my Google-fu. :-O

The Iaido footage was probably when he was the Headmaster of Eishin-Ryu (now more commonly known Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu) and the Jodo/Jujutsu looks like it was done when he formed Muso Shinden Ryu.

You'll probably have to Wiki it for more exact dates though.

[Dotanuki]

These guys where funny about what they would show people, so just think of the really good stuff they ain't showing us.

BobO,

You very well might just be looking at the good stuff, you just need someone to explain what it is, and what you are looking at.

First, they are not sparring, so you are not really seeing what may be perceived as openings. They are engaging in a prearranged two man kata/waza, this is the training method used in the the older arts.
Each strike, block and movement pattern often has multiple variations.
The base kata teaches combat movement, the ebb and flow of combat. Once this is mastered, the variations become easy since you already have the flow pattern of combat down.
In this type of kata, the senior is always the attacker, the junior the defender and winner or the encounter (delivers final stroke).
The senior adopts this role as to teach the junior, also because the senior has more skill and can control the pace and respond bettor to the techniques to eliminate any injury. As you can see in this instance, Nakayama sensei is the attacker.
Also watch how these two masters move, they are not performing as you would see today. Their movements are as natural as to be the same whether they were to be doing any dailey activity, relaxed, normal and natural. This is what made them true masters.

[willrichtor]

Nakayama's footwork is amazing. The subtle weight shifts from heel to side to ball accompanied with corresponding twists of the hips give him amazingly fluid movement. It's a far cry from the average footwork you see on display in a UFC event. Do you think he picked up any of those moves dancing with the girls during festivals? :king:

[wolfhound]

Dot's right bobO, I didn't get what you we're getting at earlier but Jodo is all paired Kata, even the Kihon can be done paired, there has never been and probably never will be free sparing involved in the martial art nor is there any in Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido.

Nakayama's footwork is amazing. The subtle weight shifts from heel to side to ball accompanied with corresponding twists of the hips give him amazingly fluid movement. It's a far cry from the average footwork you see on display in a UFC event. Do you think he picked up any of those moves dancing with the girls during festivals? :king:

Probably not, but I've had friends of mine from other Iaido/Jodo Dojo's say that "it's all in the footwork".

[bobO]

LOL. Dot's almost always right, I never thought they where sparring, I've done enough to know the difference, just talking my usual sh#t.

[wolfhound]

No Worries :)

[Dotanuki]

LOL. Dot's almost always right, I never thought they where sparring, I've done enough to know the difference, just talking my usual sh#t.

Now if you would have said, "I seen a couple of openings where I could have taken his head!!" :dwarf:
I would have known this!=))
This is the Kurgan I know!!:ohyeah:

And what do you mean "almost always right?" :blackeye: =))

[bobO]

LOL, I know I'm trying to be a kind and gentle bob.. I get confused, not easy changing a life time of bad behavior. There was this thing about metal expanding when cold....

[Dotanuki]

LOL, There was this thing about metal expanding when cold....

Doh!!!!...............#-o

It figures you would remember that! =D>
I would have thought it would have been the spike in the ear thing!! =))

[wolfhound]

Oh BTW guys, My Sensei said Master Nakayama Hakudo didn't actually get a teaching certificate for Jodo, apparently he misinterpreted his Menjo, he got very high up in Jodo but never made actually Renshi.

My Sensei's going to show me the paragraph in one of his Jodo books on Thursday.

[Dotanuki]

Oh BTW guys, My Sensei said Master Nakayama Hakudo didn't actually get a teaching certificate for Jodo, apparently he misinterpreted his Menjo, he got very high up in Jodo but never made actually Renshi.

My Sensei's going to show me the paragraph in one of his Jodo books on Thursday.

Okay Wolf, you are definitely going to have to follow up on this one as this don't sound right at all. I think you mean Hanshi not Renshi. A misspoke word makes a big difference.

I remember the stories my sensei's told me. There was no Internet back then and the magazines and books only covered only the most well known facts. Most information was passed down word to mouth especially within the individual styles.
Then later I found out many of the stories were wrong, some were about other people, some were wildly exagerrated, and so forth.
I find now, I really miss those old romantic versions I originaly heard.
Now with the Internet, I find many of the original and corrected stories have undergone a further revionist history, benefiting those that are currently in charge, many times being even more wrong than the romantic original stories.
At least the old stories were exagerated by overzealous students who understandingly wildly admired their sensei's.
Not like the Internet stories now that are put out now that undermine others to falsely promote themselves or organizations.

[wolfhound]

Well Sensei (7th Dan Renshi Iaido/6th Dan Renshi Jodo/Ikkyu Kendo) said something about Master Hakudo getting his 8th Dan but him interpreting something wrong on his Menjo, meaning he didn't actually get the teaching grade of Hanshi (not Renshi), I'll check it out and let you know, maybe even ask my Senior Sensei (7th Dan Kyoshi Iaido/7th Dan Renshi Jodo/7th Dan Renshi Kendo) what the hell my other Sensei's going on about :-?

[wolfhound]

Well Sensei (7th Dan Renshi Iaido/6th Dan Renshi Jodo/Ikkyu Kendo) said something about Master Hakudo getting his 8th Dan but him interpreting something wrong on his Menjo, meaning he didn't actually get the teaching grade of Hanshi (not Renshi), I'll check it out and let you know, maybe even ask my Senior Sensei (7th Dan Kyoshi Iaido/7th Dan Renshi Jodo/7th Dan Renshi Kendo) what the hell my other Sensei's going on about :-?


OK, Spoke to Sensei last night, He says Hakudo Sensei was a Grand Master in Iaido but not Jodo, he "was" a instructor in Jodo though (Probably an 8th Dan Hanchi and could legally teach at least 75% of the Jodo Syllabus), but some historians translated the Inka on his Menkyo wrong and said he was a Grand Master in Jodo as well, But this is completely false, the Jodo Grand masters at the time "did" say that his Jodo was very interesting and that he used the best elements from older Koryu styles.

[bobO]

So we can safely assume the guy knew what he was doing. We can also safely assume he would have beat me severly about the head and shoulders if I tried my little trick on him.

[wolfhound]

Pretty much ;)

[Torawashi]

So we can safely assume the guy knew what he was doing. We can also safely assume he would have beat me severly about the head and shoulders if I tried my little trick on him.

bob; that may be true but you are still the only one who can legally teach bucket cutting, a nearly lost art......:ohyeah: ;)

[wolfhound]

Bobo's a master of Okegiri Jutsu, wow :-O

[bobO]

:-<Oh the shame. But it was a pretty good cut, if I do say so myself. Cut the bucket and nothing but the bucket. My son is coming to stay for a week, gonna teach him how to cut. Then tune him up a bit.:sumo: BTW, I was reading this post and it dawned on me that some might not realize when I say cut, I use it in the way the Japanese think of cutting. Know what I mean?

[Dotanuki]

:-<Oh the shame. But it was a pretty good cut, if I do say so myself. Cut the bucket and nothing but the bucket.

My son is coming to stay for a week, gonna teach him how to cut. Then tune him up a bit.:sumo: BTW, I was reading this post and it dawned on me that some might not realize when I say cut, I use it in the way the Japanese think of cutting. Know what I mean?

Hmm,................... so then you only cut the bucket and not the spackle inside? :flaming:

So then, you are not talking about cutting the cheese, like in the "old fart" references then? ;)

Ah,...............to be a Kurgan!!!! :king:

Or was that Krugan?? =))

[bobO]

D'OH! That was polishing compound, Working on my new cut and polish technique, it's going to revolutionize backyard cutting, yeah that's the ticket. I'll never live this down ,will I ?