Rayskin? (or same)

[tanukimario]

Okay here's something that I was just thinking about... Where exactly does rayskin (or same if that's what you call it) come from? Not the synthetic kind, but the real one. What animal does it come from and where? Also, why do some raysknis have very small bumps while others have very large bumps and why do some have very uniform bumps?

Also where does real black rayskin come from? Is it rayskin but painted black? :D

[Firehand10k]

I think I read somewhere that its from sting ray. Rays have different sized bumps on different parts of their bodies. The skin is also thicker at different parts. Usually the bigger bumps are on the thicker skin. I have a stingray skin wallet from Thailand that is black with a white ridge in the middle with very large scales at the white part. I can't tell by looking if its dyed or natural.

[bobO]

Hopfully Justice will jump in here and set us straight.But I think Firehand is right,also the bigger and more even the nodes the better.IMO

[Justice]

Saw the Bat Signal, I'm here...

Actually, most stingrays are used for rayskin handles. There's only a few species that don't really work for them. Some have flat, disc like nodes. I think even gigantic manta rays work, but I think they are protected now. The pebbly texture has to be bleached because they come in all different colors. It's the rawhide portion that holds the colors, the nodes (which is actually dentin, the same material your teeth are made from) are usually white.

The rawhide can be dyed and the nodes usually are thin enough that the color shows through. Most of the time the rayskin is simply lacquered over.

Here's some pics of me applying rayskin to a handle.

http://homepage.mac.com/aaronjustice/.Pictures/Rayskin/fw2.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/aaronjustice/.Pictures/Rayskin/fw3.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/aaronjustice/.Pictures/Rayskin/fw5.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/aaronjustice/.Pictures/Rayskin/progres2.jpg

[Brian Brazier]

I just saw a show on leather making (tanning), which included same because it is rayskin that has been tanned. the process they use to on rayskin, is pretty much the same as cowhide. It also showed how the nodes could be flattened out, simmilar to what they do with Aligator skin.

History Channel Modern Marvels - Leather http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=75602

[bobO]

Justice,Great post.Nice to have another goto guy here on the forum,It's a great help to us guy's trying to catch up.Anyway I take it what your showing us is a very high grade same,and is that the emperor node?

[Justice]

Yes, that picture shows the emperor node. On those rayskin wallets it is the area they sand into a diamond shape.

[tanukimario]

I also read somewhere that rayskin could also come from a shark..? Is this true or not?

[Mako]

I also read somewhere that rayskin could also come from a shark..? Is this true or not?

Part of an article from the JSS/US website.

SAME KAWA
Once the wooden core is made, the same kawa is selected. Over twenty different kinds of same kawa and several grades of quality are listed in the text of The Sword and Same. There is even some question outside of Japan as to what same kawa really is. Most often it is translated as the "skin of a ray". Most non-Japanese refer to same kawa as simply same, which in Japanese means shark.

[goose710]

justice
How hard is it to apply the ray skin? i might want to try it on my next tanto.i've heard rice paste ? do you use something else to glue it on?
and how expensive is it?
you do some really nice work there .
goose710

[Jason Moore]

I also read somewhere that rayskin could also come from a shark..? Is this true or not?

I think that would be "shark skin". They call it rayskin because it comes from a manta or sting RAY. I have seen shark skin used in place of rayskin though.

[Justice]

justice
How hard is it to apply the ray skin? i might want to try it on my next tanto.i've heard rice paste ? do you use something else to glue it on?
and how expensive is it?
you do some really nice work there .
goose710

Elmer's White Glue. Really, it's actually pretty close to what a rice paste glue would be like.

Rayskin is actually pretty tough, you need some good shears to cut it. Once I have it placed I usually cut it with a dremel tool with a saw blade attachment.