Carnivale on HBO Television

[mancosbob]

Howdy, this might not be appropriate for this forum, as it is not about a movie; if so I am sorry to take up this space. I'm posting this because once upon a time, what I consider to be some of the best television ever produced, aired over the cable, but for only two seasons. It was pulled because doing a 1930's depression era, dust bowl program accurately became cost prohibitive. The shows two seasons take place in 1934 and possibly early 1935.

Carnivale was both historic and magical, bridging the gap between a dry history program and some tall tale told around a campfire by a bunch of drifters. Sure, some might see it as just a soap opera set in a carnival, but that was just the facade. The real story was based on the concept of ancient secret orders like the Knights Templar, keeping themselves hidden, yet protecting ancient wisdom. It was a time of magic; or at least more people seemed to look to magick as a reason for their troubles as opposed to science, when darkness filled their thoughts.

If you might like to see behind the scenes in a real freak show, see how hard the life of these folks was on a day to day basis, you will get all that and more. The real story is a battle between the ultimate good and the ultimate evil, both manifest in the flesh...the Apocalypse that will be unleashed in another decade as a false sun, wrought by mans hands, rises over the New Mexico desert.

I am posting this because I said elsewhere that Hollywood had lost its creative edge; but this series was/is a giant exception to that. Great writers are like great actors; and in today's world they seem a bit further apart at times.

I am also curious if anybody here at SOM watched Carnivale, maybe even has the boxed sets like I do, and what is your thoughts about this level of TV? What did you think of the show?

For those who have not seen it, Netflix has it available, and it might just be something that will draw you in as it did me...I could not stop watching after the second episode, and so I became quite a fan. I love the period of this piece, the clothes, the vehicles and the simpler pace that life seemed to run at. Sure there were problems, but these folks did something about it instead of giving up. They banded together, made their own family, and kept trying to remain free and independent in spite of the circumstances. Its a neat story; and I still feel that way four years after the first season ended. (And just another side note, my wife liked it too!)

=D>

[69NINJA]

you talked me into it, i dl'd the first season and am about to sit and watch episode 1.

have you watched Sons of anarchy, or Breaking Bad? both 2 shows noone should miss.

[Torawashi]

Mbob; I applaud your taste brother......I love stories like that. Haven't seen that particular series, but Maybe you have seen "the Grapes of Wrath" with a young Henry Fonda. another depression era story that tells of great courage of common people. Great choice, I'll have to look this one up. Thanks buddy.

[69NINJA]

Just finished episode 1 now to ep 2.
had me a little confused till near the end when they kinda tied everything together and revealed some things. some freaky sh*t thrown in there too, i like that.

[mancosbob]

Mbob; I applaud your taste brother......I love stories like that. Haven't seen that particular series, but Maybe you have seen "the Grapes of Wrath" with a young Henry Fonda. another depression era story that tells of great courage of common people. Great choice, I'll have to look this one up. Thanks buddy.


Torawashi...we are somewhat alike it seems (Dot is pretty good with his insigts it seems); Grapes of Wrath is listed in my netflix all time top 22 films in 3rd place; The Shootist is in 4th place...but it is more like a tie! Add a touch of the supernatural to GoW and you got an idea of what attracted me to CARNIVALE in the first place. The fight to maintain ones dignity when everything else is dying off...you know what I mean.

Oh, just so nobody asks...
1. Unforgiven - Eastwood
2. LOTR trilogy extended edition
3. Grapes of Wrath - Fonda...the only one that could act BTW!
4. The Shootist - Wayne
5. Last Man Standing - Willis (I really love 1911's)
6. Sword of Doom - Nakadai
7. The Wild Bunch - Holden

That's enough insight into my head for now... B-)

Just finished episode 1 now to ep 2.
had me a little confused till near the end when they kinda tied everything together and revealed some things. some freaky sh*t thrown in there too, i like that.

69Ninja...it only gets better...pay attention to those dream sequences, you will see why as you continue watching ;)
I am happy as hell you are trying Carnivale out; I hope you will enjoy it as I do...I just started it over again and am about to start episode 4 when I sign off here.

[69NINJA]

Yup i'm just about to start episode 4 myself as well, been a quiet stay at home night with the tv on all day. Tried to order chinese but they were closed probably because of Chinese new year. got some damn BK instead, bleh.


Edit: things havent been as freaky as some of the things in the 1st episode, that cat scene actually made me go WTF!!! some Pet Cemetery $h!t. lol.

[Torawashi]

Mbob; those movies you listed would all be on my list, but the very top movies on my list would be from the '30s and '40s......films like the Maltese Falcon, Casablanca, the Adventures of Robin Hood, China Seas (Clark Gable, Jean Harlow, Wallace Beery, Lewis Stone), And film noir classics with Alan Ladd, Robert Mitchum etc. and so forth, yes I think our taste in movies is very similar.

[Brian Brazier]

I have never watched the Last Man Standing, I see that it is a remake of Yojimbo and Fistful of Dollars

[Dotanuki]

M-Bob, when you were younger, did you run off with the traveling circus by any chance? (I'm serious)
I've met and known a few. (circus people)

I think Robert Mitchem was probably the coolest and toughest of all the old actors with the exception of Victor Mature.

You guys are missing a whole bunch of the good ones,
Samson and Delilah
Gunga Din
The Charge of the Light Brigade
River of No Return (Fantastic sound track!)
Spartacus
I could go on and on. (and on and on)

Sometimes these pictures affect us personally, I've never cared for Frank Sinatra, yet his movie "The Manchurian Candidate" is one of my favorites.

69NINJA, I'm surprised you liked 'Sons of Anarchy', I really didn't care for it, the only character I found believable was Katie Segal's. I thought the characters were just caricatures of bikers, I found none of the male actors believable. William Smith, back in the 60's was more believable than any of them. (that ain't saying much)
What did you like about it?

[Torawashi]

Dammit Mbob! Now you've got me hooked on Carnivale......stayed up all night watching it online......I'm on episode 4 (Black Blizzard)...still not 100% sure what's going on, but i'm addicted.....don't know how I missed this one.......the kid who plays Ben Hawkins has a face that reminds me of a young Glenn Ford.....

Dotanuki; I have most of those movies you mentioned in my DVD collection......they're top notch.....

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/steve-mcqueen--bullitt-1.jpg

[Jason Moore]

I seen the whole first season of Carnavale and it was my favorite show of all time! The guy that played john connor in Terminator 3 is one of the main actors and I thought he was great. Also, Clancy Brown is in it also!

Last man standing was also a great watch!

[69NINJA]

Dont worry tora, i'm about to start epesode 8 and Im still just as confused as ep 4 as well, I guess were supposed to be.


Dotanuki, yeah the acting and even the plot of SOA were both mundane, but I have to say I loved that show, they always threw in a twist that kept me waiting for the next week show, the next to last episode (the driveby scene) even though predictable as hell had me cussing at my tv, although I do that alot anyway:)
Besides when I get home from work at like 5am I had the choice of watching this or SHAM WOW informercials, SHAM WOW, F@&K YOU, I choose SOA.

[mancosbob]

Robert Mitchum, man did he look like my uncle Joe; they even kind of talked the same. I loved most of Mitchum's work...Thunder Road coming to mind first off. I liked Bogart too, I think Treasure of the Sierra Madre may have been my favorite of his, or Maltese Falcon, but that one where he was escaped from jail and hiding with Miss Bacall was good too...then there was Key Largo...

Carnivale can be a tough watch at first, its not your usual TV style of brain softening pablum. I won't give anything away, but you will soon have this moment of lucidity. Perhaps it was my long ago study of some of the avataric mythology...all based on the Illuminati...the few with real blue blood; but everything in the show was based on something I had studied before.

Go back to Samson's opening monologue; to every generation was born a creature of light, and one of darkness. Also remember what Lodz said to Sampson about wanting to speak to Management, that they no longer talked to one another, not since St. Louis; both concepts tell more than they say, don't listen (read) over them. Each sentence needs to be dissected carefully to extract the meanings, like listening to a lawyer almost.

If something don't make sense now, just take note of it and put in the shelf for a while; shotley all will be revealed. @-)

[Torawashi]

watched the episode titled "Babylon" last night......sent chills down my spine.....AFTER i watched it.......you don't really realize what's going on till the end of the episode......really creepy....I like this Carnivale......it doesn't suck

[mancosbob]

watched the episode titled "Babylon" last night......sent chills down my spine.....AFTER i watched it.......you don't really realize what's going on till the end of the episode......really creepy....I like this Carnivale......it doesn't suck

Babylon is a definitely good one, you still have my two favorites to wade through at the end of season one; 'Day of the Dead'...and 'The Day That Was The Day'. But I know what you mean about the visuals and the dialog in 'Babylon' and its sequel 'Pick a Number'; nothing is clear until you see that look on Samsons face at the end of Pick a Number. Everything the bartender said throughout both episodes will come into crystal clarity at that moment. If you are not paying attention, you can miss what happened and all the implications it holds. Each new revelation is but a stepping stone for the next disclosure; and on and on it goes.

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp196/mancosbob/stuff/Carnivale_Season_1_Cast_Promo-1.gif

By the way, here is a link to some CARNIVALE stories that are written by fans, and some folks that can not be named because of legalities with HBO. Don't go there until you have digested both seasons of the show. Some of the stories have closure based on where the TV show leaves off, and others flesh out some details that were not covered as well as they might have been. http://www.fanfiction.net/tv/Carnivale/

I am glad you are enjoying this series! >:)

[Torawashi]

Thanks for the link Mbob, I have bookmarked it and will read it after I've finished both seasons. I'm still trying to figure out the weird preacher (and just about everyone else) :hahaskull:

[69NINJA]

I'm half through season 2, finished Road to damascus last night, bout to start Damascus now, BETTER BE SOME BLADES IN IT WITH A NAME LIKE THAT! things have definatly fit together and you can visualize where things are going, I just pray the second season doesn't explode and leave you hanging in the last 5 min cause I know theres no season 3.

[69NINJA]

I'm half through season 2, finished Road to damascus last night, bout to start Damascus now, BETTER BE SOME BLADES IN IT WITH A NAME LIKE THAT! things have definatly fit together and you can visualize where things are going, I just pray the second season doesn't explode and leave you hanging in the last 5 min cause I know theres no season 3.


Yup, there WAS a knife in it... Thats all i'm gonna say.

[Torawashi]

.....I could use about 5 more seasons of Rita Sue......=P~

[mancosbob]

.....I could use about 5 more seasons of Rita Sue......=P~


You know, with you taste in guns and your taste in women, it's a good thing we are several states apart...I'd hate to have to get into it with you over a woman. Rita Sue is mighty fine; on a scale of 1 to 10 she is somplace just past 22...now if she can only cook! =))

JFYI, I think Ms. Ettinger is in the last season of Deadwood, and plays a loose lady in that one too; just not as kinky as Mrs. Dreyfus.

[mancosbob]

HBO owns the rights to Carnivale. HBO will not let go of said rights, or allow it to be continued in any other format, by them or anybody else. The writer was told by HBO that they were behind the show 100% start to finish when he gave over all rights, but then HBO has enough money and lawyers that they never have to tell the truth. I know I, as well as thousands of loyal fans were hurt enough to to spend two plus years writing letters and organizing meets to try and beg for some closure. Even a mini-series or a movie, though not really adequate, would be better than nothing.

The end of series two was/is a cliff hanger of sorts, but it is also the end of the story in the early 1930's; so in that respect, it can be construed as an ending by those who do not seek to look too deeply within the plot.

I, for one, would even be happy with a series of Graphic Novels, as a last resort; but unless HBO gets a conscience sometime soon, that will never be I fear.

=(

[Torawashi]

Mbob; I couldn't agree more buddy.....I am still furious over the abandonment of the great series "the Black Donellys"....I really got into that show, and of course, it was canceled. I can't let myself get into a show too deeply any more because of that kind of thing.....if a show is really original and good they cancel it, and of course if it's garbage for the thundering herd, it's successful because 80% of all people are dumber than a bag of hair......My favorite shows are "Life" with Damien Lewis(great actor),"CSI", "CSI New York", "Criminal Minds", and "the Unit"......but I can't allow myself to get too attached or they will of course be canceled........now i'm gonna go get drunker than a fiddler's bitch........and don't worry about getting into it over Rita Sue......I promise to give you a quick death.......B-)

[mancosbob]

...and don't worry about getting into it over Rita Sue......I promise to give you a quick death.......B-)

Tora buddy, looks like you played in the same theatre as just about all my friends, judging by that service ribbon. Bless you for taking part in breaking the back of communism; God knows how many lives were saved because of that war! I just regret what sort of BS you guys had to eat from all the pinko pricks when you came back.

I lost the best friend I have ever known to that damned war. Oh, he came back and all, which is how we met, but that defoliant cr@p gave him cancer, and it killed a lot more than just him. Its been since 1991 when he passed away, and I still miss him. The three of us would have been a team I bet had we met back then. He was the kind of guy that showed up when I had to move; and I did the same for him no matter what. I miss taking just a pack and my old M-1A and spending a few days in the forest primeval; alas, that's all illegal out here now, and I'm not ready to pay that kind of price to relax...besides I'm getting to old to dig.

In good conscience though, I must warn you about Rita Sue's water act in episode 11. If you have not had your main spring looked at in a while, you might want to skip that one scene. I'd hate like hell to find out that scene did you in! The potential to vapor lock is there.... whooo ya!

As to that other thing...I've seen the bullet slow down and then taken care of business; the good Lord protects those who love him and fools (won't say which covers me)...then again, I love my wife too much to cheat! I'm he!! on looking though!

;)

[Torawashi]

Mbob; Amen brother.......and I have watched episode 11.....I was running to get a towel to help dry off Rita Sue, but by the time I got back, the scene was over......dammit!

P.S. Rita Sue is real fine, but I don't cheat either and here's the reason why:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/MyPatsy-1.jpg

My better half, Patsy.....no, she's not my first wife, but she's the last one :ohyeah:

[mancosbob]

Tora, looks like we got lucky in love too...Patsy has one nice smile.

Every good relationship has some ground rules, since this is not
my first time out of the gate either, my past mistakes have given
me a creedo that I live and die by...

HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE!

Nothing has ever served me so well as those four words! And I
guess since it's show and tell at the SOM forums, I might as well
join in and send a pic of my love Lisa, taken about a month ago.
I can't begin to imagine life without her; she has stood by my side
when everybody else hightailed it and ran. She is just a pleasure
to be with, and whats more, she even likes my hobbies.

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp196/mancosbob/Lisa2008_01.jpg

[Torawashi]

Mbob; your lady Lisa is lovely, you're a lucky man.....I'm glad I didn't meet Patsy the first time around.....I made all my foolish mistakes first and now I'm much wiser and know what to do (and what not to do) to keep her happy. Without her I would be lost in the wilderness. :ohyeah:

[bobO]

You guys are killing me! I'd put up a pic of my latest girl, but I think playboy has copyright. Beautiful ladies guys. You lucky dogs.

[mancosbob]

I'm glad I didn't meet Patsy the first time around.....I made all my foolish mistakes first and now I'm much wiser and know what to do (and what not to do) to keep her happy. Without her I would be lost in the wilderness. :ohyeah:

AMEN Brother! You know that Garth Brooks song about unanswered prayers? Am I ever glad I left all the tougher decisions to a higher power; most of my best ideas turned out to be really bone headed and/or just plain bad. I was 'seeing' my latest conquest when Lisa bebopped into my life; she showed me what the right woman really is...God's greatest gift to us crafty Apes.


You guys are killing me! I'd put up a pic of my latest girl, but I think playboy has copyright. Beautiful ladies guys. You lucky dogs.

Woof! Woof! Then again, you ain't seen my mistakes... :blackeye:

[Torawashi]

Woof! Woof! Then again, you ain't seen my mistakes... :blackeye:

You ain't lyin' brudda; I've dated some wimmen that goin' out to dinner meant Milk-Bone on the back porch! :ohyeah:

bobO; I think it was my snazzy line that made her mine....... I just said: "stick with me honey and you'll be fartin' through silk".........Yes, that's me, the original silver tongued devil.........

[Taygrd]

Been reading this and I have to say I have never watched Carnivale. But I do have my favs.
1. Band of Brothers-more like a religious ceremony than a series. The best and most true thing I have watched.
2. Sopranos, sorry I like mob flicks.
3. Deadwood-got hooked and still ****** off they ended it.
I guess I will have to go get Carnivale.:)

As a postscript; You fellas are lucky to have such lovely ladies.

[Torawashi]

T; my Patsy thanks you for the nice compliment.....I agree with you on Band of Brothers, also another of my favorites is Rome, the series.......kinda lost interest in Deadwood after Hickock was killed(gee, who knew??).....I really like Mob movies but the Sopranos had a little too much of the soap opera for me.....
BTW, you don't have to go out and buy Carnivale unless you want to....you can watch the streaming video online like I do....

[Taygrd]

You are right about the Sopranos, I got hooked in the early days when the body count was high. I have watched the first season of Rome, was there a second?

[Torawashi]

You are right about the Sopranos, I got hooked in the early days when the body count was high. I have watched the first season of Rome, was there a second?

T; yes, there were 2 seasons of Rome, regretfully not more.....I have both boxed sets and they are well worth the price. Lots of satisfying action, insights into Roman life, and even a few laughs along the way.

[Taygrd]

Thanks, I enjoyed the 1st season. Pretty soon I am going to 6 to 8 weeks of arse sitting recovering from some bodywork. I will get time then to catch up on some shows.

[Torawashi]

T; Hope it's nothing too serious......I wish you a safe and speedy recovery, and season 2 of Rome is a winner. Hell, I may come down there and watch it with you! ;)

[Taygrd]

Getting a boob job=))

[Brian Brazier]

got Last Man Standing today, I am gonna wait till tomorrow to watch it while I do my Remmicade (Arthritis Meds) at the hospital

[mancosbob]

got Last Man Standing today, I am gonna wait till tomorrow to watch it...

It's dueling Colt 1911's...I must have watched that flick 50 times, and it keeps getting funnier every time I watch it! The director does homage to his grandness...Sam Peckinpah. You gonna luv it to death man!

.....kinda lost interest in Deadwood after Hickock was killed(gee, who knew??) ....I really like Mob movies but the Sopranos had a little too much of the soap opera for me.......

Me too, in fact I renamed it F-Wood...after James Butler got his brains blowed all over the #10, they replaced him with more F-bombs per minute that Scarface on fast forward.... Soprano's, I like some, but it kind of ended during season 3 for me. Athough the mini-nude scene of Carmela's backside was the best moment post season 4...